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12-30-2012 at 10:03 PM
nonniedee
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Circumcision

I was recently speaking with a few friends, and the topic came up. Someone went into this spiel about how it's inhumane and barbaric. I got really offended, because it's' a requirement for my faith. Of course I don't think there is anything wrong with it, but I was wondering how you ladies feel. The lady I was speaking to didn't have a convincing argument against it IMHO.

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12-30-2012 at 10:10 PM
SLSeibert1
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If it is a boy we are going to do it, DH wants him to look like him. 

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12-30-2012 at 10:16 PM
bmoscowitz
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Any nurse will tell you that a heel prick will cause more crying than a circumcision. Nothing inhumane about it and it is healthier. 
 
12-30-2012 at 10:19 PM
meimsx
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I have no idea if we will circ. That's a very big decision that I don't take lightly.

That being said, I think your friend was incredibly rude to preach to you about her belief system. Does she know it is a religious tradition for you? 


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12-30-2012 at 10:21 PM
ippichic
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We did not circumcise my son.  My husband is from South America and it is not a common practice.  I got squeamish about it too and had no real argument "for" it.  My husband has never had a problem, my son is 5 1/2 and we've never had a problem.  Pretty much most of the Latin American population (and actually a lot of the Western world) doesn't have a problem.  It is the most common practice here in the states due to hygiene issues in past times, and certain religious practices, but now-a-days our pediatrician said only 50% of newborn boys are circumcised.  Do what makes sense to you and your family...

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12-30-2012 at 10:21 PM
PrimRoseMa...
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Personal choice. It's none of my business what other parents choose for their children's private parts.

I would leave the choice up to DH, but honestly for hygiene purposes if we have a boy we are leaning towards circumcision.

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12-30-2012 at 10:24 PM
Monsieur_e...
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PrimRoseMama:
Personal choice. It's none of my business what other parents choose for their children's private parts. I would leave the choice up to DH, but honestly for hygiene purposes if we have a boy we are leaning towards circumcision.

This is us, too.


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12-30-2012 at 10:30 PM
GraceInCA
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I mostly agree with your friend, but I have a lot of very close Jewish friends and I respect their faith and wouldn't say such a thing to them. I think it's slightly different when it is done out of religious observance.  

DS is not circumcised, and if this baby had been a boy, we wouldn't circ this new baby either. DH is circumcised but isn't concerned about matching penises (which I think is perhaps the dumbest argument ever in favor of circumcision), and it's not medically necessary. The US is one of the only first world countries where this is somewhat routine, but luckily the rates are dropping. In our area they are way below 50%. The argument about hygiene is also goofy. I don't think the men in England or Germany are running around with dirty junk. The argument about reducing the rate of penile cancer - which is already incredibly low - isn't enough of a draw in the risk-benefit analysis. It goes from astronomically low to astronomically low. I think the only arguments left are "people will make fun of him in the locker room", which is not valid because there will be just as many if not more uncircumcised boys, and "everyone in the family is circumcised", which I guess is fine if you would like the family penises to be matchy matchy. 


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12-30-2012 at 10:53 PM
Rachel Gol...
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GraceInCA:

I mostly agree with your friend, but I have a lot of very close Jewish friends and I respect their faith and wouldn't say such a thing to them. I think it's slightly different when it is done out of religious observance.  

DS is not circumcised, and if this baby had been a boy, we wouldn't circ this new baby either. DH is circumcised but isn't concerned about matching penises (which I think is perhaps the dumbest argument ever in favor of circumcision), and it's not medically necessary. The US is one of the only first world countries where this is somewhat routine, but luckily the rates are dropping. In our area they are way below 50%. The argument about hygiene is also goofy. I don't think the men in England or Germany are running around with dirty junk. The argument about reducing the rate of penile cancer - which is already incredibly low - isn't enough of a draw in the risk-benefit analysis. It goes from astronomically low to astronomically low. I think the only arguments left are "people will make fun of him in the locker room", which is not valid because there will be just as many if not more uncircumcised boys, and "everyone in the family is circumcised", which I guess is fine if you would like the family penises to be matchy matchy. 

I agree with all of these statements. Thanks Grace for summing it up for me. I think it's a personal decision, and obviously if it is reflective of your faith and you are expected to do it then you can. DH is not and my boys will be no different. Do your research if you really want to know. Watch a few YouTube videos on "Routine Circumcision" if you want to know what to expect or what your DS may endure during the procedure. It's purely a preference and I have no problems with DH's hygiene and as long as I teach my boys they will be just the same.

I think it is completely inappropriate for someone to ask you what you are going to do to your child's genitalia. Whenever we are asked we simply say "We don't believe it's something anyone needs to know." Because honestly, they don't.


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12-30-2012 at 10:56 PM
nyki06
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I always assumed that we would circumcise a boy if we had one because it's very common here in the Midwest. After reading about it, neither my husband or I can rationalize cutting our sons penis without a good reason to. I think if we were Jewish we would have more of a discussion about it, but definitely as non-Jews it is out of the question at this point. I'm sure that there will be a couple questions from the grandparents but their opinion isn't a good enough reason for me to choose to circumcise. 

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12-30-2012 at 11:04 PM
JenS2203
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Definitely a personal decision and I'm with PP in that I don't care what other people do. DH had to have it done at 18 years old due to medical issues and does not want our son to go through it later in life. So we are going to circ.

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12-31-2012 at 12:01 AM
RussianMom...
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i get mad when ppl try to tell us the same thing - our son is getting snipped and that's that - my H is pretty good at shutting them down.

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12-31-2012 at 12:28 AM
natalie115
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Like PP said it's a totally personal choice. It's no ones right to tell you your reasons for doing it or not doing it are stupid or invalid.

I know a few people who work in elderly care homes and they say that the uncirc'd men have an incredibly hard time keeping it clean and are constantly battling infections even with the attendants help with hygiene.

FTR we will be circ'ing any boys we have, DH was adament about it and I don't have strong feelings one way or the other.

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12-31-2012 at 12:50 AM
TunaRoll78
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I agree. It IS a personal choice. However, its rightfully the choice of the person that owns that genitalia. That baby will become a man that might have wanted to have his whole penis.
 
12-31-2012 at 1:22 AM
RussianMom...
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TunaRoll78:
I agree. It IS a personal choice. However, its rightfully the choice of the person that owns that genitalia. That baby will become a man that might have wanted to have his whole penis.

can you honestly tell me that a man who has been cut really cares? all men I know who are cut are happy that they are, and all men who are not cut, are happy that they are. they are used to it and have no preference either way. i don't think it's as big of a deal some ppl make it out to be. 


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12-31-2012 at 6:49 AM
mammamia24
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I will be getting this baby circumsized. DS & DH are both circumsized. I work in long term care and have seen way too many older un~circumsized men get infections because of not being able to take care of themselves properly. Even with our help. IMO though it's the parents choice & nobody has the right to tell someone else what is wrong or right for their child.

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12-31-2012 at 6:51 AM
nonniedee
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TunaRoll78:
I agree. It IS a personal choice. However, its rightfully the choice of the person that owns that genitalia. That baby will become a man that might have wanted to have his whole penis.

This was the argument that was used against it in my discussion. I have to say that this is a weak point. We make all other decisions for babies, why would their genitalia be any different? I was told that I'm blinded by religion, and maybe I am, but this point just seems silly to me. Every parent wants what is best for their child, and I honestly feel that this is what's right. Supposedly, there is some movement that is trying to stop hospitals from the giving the option at birth. They feel that if you want to have your son circumcised you should do it on your own time.  http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/anti-circumcision-advocates-cut-basis-ban-routine-procedure-article-1.965535  It feels like an attack is all I'm saying.


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12-31-2012 at 7:20 AM
KateRN08
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bmoscowitz:
Any nurse will tell you that a heel prick will cause more crying than a circumcision. Nothing inhumane about it and it is healthier.nbsp;


This is crap. I am an obstetrical nurse where I assist with circumcisions and do heel pricks often. A lot of hospitals don't do penile blocks and trust me, the babies cry a whole lot more than a heel prick, but they do get over it fast.

If we have a boy we will be getting him circumcised, but at a place that does penile blocks.

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12-31-2012 at 7:30 AM
doremi29
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I had a friend go into a similar conversation with me telling me about how the baby goes into shock and how horrible it is.  DS was circumsized in the hospital, healed easily, cried after the first time he peed and never had issues related to the circ.  If this LO was a boy, we'd be doing the same. 

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12-31-2012 at 7:44 AM
JenG329
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DS#1 is circumcised and so will DS#2.

 My dad was born in Germany and wasn't at birth.  He had to have it done later in life and advised me to just do it at birth for my sons.  

It's a personal choice.  I chose to do it.  I can understand not wanting to do it.  But no one should push their opinion on you.   


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12-31-2012 at 7:56 AM
LalaMama81
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Lot's of things cause infections later in life but we don't cut them off or out at birth "just in case." 

Wanting to look like Dad is ridiculous. My daughters don't look exactly like me in any area of our bodies, shocking, they realize we are all different.  



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12-31-2012 at 9:26 AM
evelyntayl...
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We did circ our son, however if this baby is a boy then we will not circ. There is no medical reason to and we just did it last time because we thought it was right. Since then, we really don't agree with the practice in general. 

FYI for anyone with Medicaid: they will not cover circs. I don't carry it, but I do all financial discharges in our hospital. 


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12-31-2012 at 9:37 AM
bmoscowitz
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There is a very important point that none of you are considering, because you are all/mostly women.  You have to also be aware of the culture you are raising your child in.  The Western US is the only region where the majority of boys are not circumcised.  In the South, a majority are, and in the Midwest and Northeast, an overwhelming majority are. 

I grew up in the northeast and can tell you from gym class that only one boy in my entire grade, all through grammar school, was uncircumcised (and this is in a school where I was the only Jewish student, mind you).  He was the boy with the "funny" or "ugly" wiener.  Religious reasons aside, if it is purely a cultural decision then looking like daddy is not nearly as important as looking like his peers.

As a man, I can tell you that in childhood and adolescence, having the "weird junk" is NOT a good thing and can affect your son's confidence for a lifetime.  Whether it is circumcision or an unusual bend or turn, do not underestimate its effect.  You know how important a man's penis is to his personality!   I am not joking here!

 
12-31-2012 at 9:53 AM
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We plan to get it done before leaving the hospital.


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12-31-2012 at 9:56 AM
LalaMama81
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bmoscowitz:

There is a very important point that none of you are considering, because you are all/mostly women.  You have to also be aware of the culture you are raising your child in.  The Western US is the only region where the majority of boys are not circumcised.  In the South, a majority are, and in the Midwest and Northeast, an overwhelming majority are. 

I grew up in the northeast and can tell you from gym class that only one boy in my entire grade, all through grammar school, was uncircumcised (and this is in a school where I was the only Jewish student, mind you).  He was the boy with the "funny" or "ugly" wiener.  Religious reasons aside, if it is purely a cultural decision then looking like daddy is not nearly as important as looking like his peers.

As a man, I can tell you that in childhood and adolescence, having the "weird junk" is NOT a good thing and can affect your son's confidence for a lifetime.  Whether it is circumcision or an unusual bend or turn, do not underestimate its effect.  You know how important a man's penis is to his personality!   I am not joking here!

Are you kidding me? There are so many things wrong with your post, I don't even know where to begin.  

Sounds like you are just perpetrating the idea that uncut men look, "weird." Ridiculous.

I've heard this stupid locker room line before, but it's usually from women. I've asked men about this and I've been told that the weirdo is the one checking out the other guys' penises. My husband played baseball all through high school so he was in the locker room a lot besides gym - no one looked at each other, no one cared. Most kids don't even have to strip down beyond underwear anyway.

Do you plan on teaching your children to look, think and act like their peers? I mean, if their penis needs to look the same then I guess you want them to take the same drugs, wear the same skimpy clothes, go to the same parties, etc. Wouldn't want them to get made fun of, would we?! 



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12-31-2012 at 10:21 AM
BekW2009
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If we have a boy, I defer that decision to my DH. He said he wants it done so it's done, I don't have boy parts so I don't have a say.

Plus, there is a slight increase of a chance a boy can get UTIs if they are uncircumcised, and being DD has VU Reflux, and the chance of this baby having it as well is around 30%, I'm looking for the best ways to decrease the chances of UTIs.


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12-31-2012 at 10:48 AM
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bmoscowitz:
Any nurse will tell you that a heel prick will cause more crying than a circumcision. Nothing inhumane about it and it is healthier. 

I am a nurse, and in my days in the newborn nursery, assisted with many circumcisions. I will tell you that it is obviously painful for the baby. The reason some don't cry is because the doctor sticks a pacifier covered in sugar water in the baby's mouth. When given local anesthetic, it is much less visibly painful (less crying and squirming), but many docs haven't gotten on board with the local anesthetic yet.

That being said, I am circumcizing my son, but chose a hospital and OB that uses local anesthetic for circumcision. But I don't want anyone to think that this is a painless procedure on par with a heel stick. That is definitely misinformation.


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12-31-2012 at 11:02 AM
Mommymorti...
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I'm sorry about your friend, it was way out of line for her to push her opinon on you. I don't believe it is inhumane or barbaric, I simply view it as unnecessary, and that's enough for me not to have it done. I'm sure if we got a female circumcision we would be cleaner as well but we know how to clean ourselves just like all of the millions of men who aren't circumcised know how to clean themselves. It comes attached so imo it's supposed to be there, it's a natural thing just like our vaginal lips are.

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12-31-2012 at 11:05 AM
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Our DS is, and any future sons will be.

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12-31-2012 at 11:27 AM
bmoscowitz
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LalaMama81:
bmoscowitz:

There is a very important point that none of you are considering, because you are all/mostly women.  You have to also be aware of the culture you are raising your child in.  The Western US is the only region where the majority of boys are not circumcised.  In the South, a majority are, and in the Midwest and Northeast, an overwhelming majority are. 

I grew up in the northeast and can tell you from gym class that only one boy in my entire grade, all through grammar school, was uncircumcised (and this is in a school where I was the only Jewish student, mind you).  He was the boy with the "funny" or "ugly" wiener.  Religious reasons aside, if it is purely a cultural decision then looking like daddy is not nearly as important as looking like his peers.

As a man, I can tell you that in childhood and adolescence, having the "weird junk" is NOT a good thing and can affect your son's confidence for a lifetime.  Whether it is circumcision or an unusual bend or turn, do not underestimate its effect.  You know how important a man's penis is to his personality!   I am not joking here!

Are you kidding me? There are so many things wrong with your post, I don't even know where to begin.  

Sounds like you are just perpetrating the idea that uncut men look, "weird." Ridiculous.

I've heard this stupid locker room line before, but it's usually from women. I've asked men about this and I've been told that the weirdo is the one checking out the other guys' penises. My husband played baseball all through high school so he was in the locker room a lot besides gym - no one looked at each other, no one cared. Most kids don't even have to strip down beyond underwear anyway.

Do you plan on teaching your children to look, think and act like their peers? I mean, if their penis needs to look the same then I guess you want them to take the same drugs, wear the same skimpy clothes, go to the same parties, etc. Wouldn't want them to get made fun of, would we?! 

 

Sorry, but you are wrong. Perhaps by high school the maturity begins to reach an appropriate level but in grade school it certainly hasn't.  It doesn't matter if I think it looks ugly or weird, kids are cruel and tease each other.  Of course I am going to raise MY kid with an open mind, but it doesn't mean that other kids will have the same.  Your further comments about peer pressure are reaching, hard.

It is the parents' choice, of course.  I was simply presenting another factor.  You can call it trivial, you can go by your locker room interviews of men that you know, but it IS a factor and one that parents should keep in mind along with others.

Our son will be circumcised, not for religious reasons but for cultural and health reasons.  The chances for complications are slight, and definitely outweighed by the significantly lower risk of STDs, UTIs, and some cancers.  I do not even have to think twice about a tradeoff of 0.2% complication risk for 15% drop in chance to get HIV, and big drops for herpes and HPV.  Seems like a no-brainer to me, but to each his own.

 
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