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01-09-2013 at 7:02 AM
Ktrevey
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Birth class last night...

So I went to my first birthing class. It was a free seminar at BRU. ( I am going to real classes starting this week, just figured I would do this one too). Well, over all it was good.. HOWEVER, the lady was very anti-hositpal and telling us that half of us in the room would get c-sections and that there is a huge increase of women that die during child birth. She was telling us that medically she cannot tell us to ignore our doctors warnings, but that we probably can and that try to stay at home as long as possible so you only have to be in the hospital about an hour. Then she went on to say that we need to argue with the people at the hospital to get what we want, make sure to put up a good fight! It was the scariest thing I have ever been to....Is this typical of a birthing class?? Should I expect this for the real one I am signed up for?
 
01-09-2013 at 7:06 AM
rm2013
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You get what you pay for! This lady sounds like a real quack job. I'd stick with licensed professionals for future classes.

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01-09-2013 at 7:07 AM
Ktrevey
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She was. She is a doula and has her own company.... Thats what confused me so much. 
 
01-09-2013 at 7:08 AM
covertxxam...
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No, this isn't typical. That lady sounds like a huge a hole. Lol. Seriously! Hospitals do everything they can to make you comfortable and have a good experience. C sections obviously depend on the situation at hand. And death? My goodness.. She was obviously trying to scare you all. I can't believe that. I'd probably be making a complaint about her!

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01-09-2013 at 7:08 AM
drpayne
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It probably wasn't the time or place for her to share her opinions but it sounds like she's pretty passionate about natural birth. It's extreme to talk about dying during birth.... But she actually makes some good points otherwise. Many hospitals are high intervention and you need to be well informed about your options.

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01-09-2013 at 7:24 AM
lil fox
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I had the exact opposite issue when i did a birth class at a hospital. The nurse kept pushing epidurals, called women who scream in childbirth uncivilized as she once again brought up why we should get epidurals, would ask us who our doctors were and then as she was lecturing would cryptically say "now one of you has a doctor that does so and so, which really isn't a good thing". She probably talked about epis every half hour (this is a hospital with a 91% epi rate, surprise!). She also talked about c-sections and how a certain percentage of us were going to have one and that if we hold off on the epidural they will have to do gen anesthesia for an emergency c and we will miss the birth of our baby and it would delay us being able to hold our babies. Oh, and that she thinks the study showing back is best is a crock and that babies can sleep on their tummies, and that the APP recommends pacis to prevent SIDS (when you really look at the study it is for babies a month old and older) etc, 

 Anyway, I ended up writing a letter to the l&d head because I was so upset and I have already decided I will bar this woman from my room if she is on shift. I don't care if it is rude. She was terrible. My nurse that calls from my insurance (she calls once  a month) when I told her what this woman said she said "That is just laziness. Women with epidurals can go to sleep and the nurse doesn't have to be there as often. Women in natural birth need more support, so when a nurse encourages an epidural it is because she doesn't want to do her job,"

  I think there is just a lot of choice with labor and obviously everyone has different philosophies. It isn't really a science. but people running birth classes should remain more neutral unless it is a specific philosophy. 


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01-09-2013 at 7:26 AM
amykins128...
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She was probably hoping that she would scare some people badly enough that they would hire her for their births, haha.

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01-09-2013 at 7:45 AM
tmsgrl
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I kind of agree about staying home as long as possible.  With my 1st I started getting contractions at 6 am one morning and I stayed at home until I could not take the pain (about 10 pm that night.)  When I got to the hospital I was 4 cm dilated.  My daughter was born at 6am the next morning.  I have a hunch that if I had been at the hospital that entire time I would have ended in a c-section but because I was only there for 8 hours they were in no rush to get me out.  It turned out that my daughter was sunny-side up so that is why I labored for so long.

As far as the teacher of the class you took, I thing she should have left her personal feelings at home and just taught the class.  We don't need to be scared any more about childbirth than we already are, thank you very much!

 
01-09-2013 at 7:49 AM
carig63
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Ktrevey:
She was. She is a doula and has her own company.... Thats what confused me so much. 

She wants you to be scared of what she said so you hire her to argue with hospital staff. She's creating her own business. Shrewd, but not very nice. And for what it's worth, I loved every minute of my hospital birth!


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01-09-2013 at 7:59 AM
mabenner1
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While I think her platform and methods are a little suspect, she's absolutely right. C-section rates are high in this country, maternal mortality rates are higher in the US then they are in some third-world countries, and you should absolutely question your doctor, and not just follow their recommendations blindly.

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01-09-2013 at 8:00 AM
MT-Head
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amykins1283:
She was probably hoping that she would scare some people badly enough that they would hire her for their births, haha.

Oh, I thought that was terribly obvious.  She was totally trying to drum up business. 


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01-09-2013 at 8:04 AM
JenS2203
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carig63:

Ktrevey:
She was. She is a doula and has her own company.... Thats what confused me so much. 

She wants you to be scared of what she said so you hire her to argue with hospital staff. She's creating her own business. Shrewd, but not very nice. And for what it's worth, I loved every minute of my hospital birth!

This, me too. Take everything you hear with a grain of salt, people are biased and have agendas. Yes, you should advocate for yourself at the hospital, but talk of death? That's a bit much.


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01-09-2013 at 8:15 AM
ettraud
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I had my first birth class last night (1 of 4 sessions) as well.  Mine being offered at the hospital was the exact opposite.  I found mine so far to be very informative. 

For the staying home part, the nurse instructed that when your contractions become consistent to go ahead and call the doctor in your practice for their opinion as to when you should come in.  Depending on your situation will dictate whether you should come in right away or wait until say the contractions are about 5 minutes apart. However, if your water breaks or if your water starts to "trickle" you should call your doctor and they will instruct you as well, when you should come into the hospital as well.

One of the girls in the class was asking about various positions to help to ease pain other than the traditional way that you always see (with your feet in the stirrups). The nurse (who is actually an RN that works in the maternity services at my hospital) said that they try to accomodate all of your wishes beforehand.  If there is something that you specifically want to let the nurses know your intentions once you get to the hospital.  As long as the request won't harm you or the baby, they will accomodate it.  I know they mentioned that the intentions with the umbilical cord was one to make sure that you mention, as to whether you want the father to cut the cord or not that way if he wanted to cut the cord he will get the opportunity.

As far as c-sections are concerned, our nurse stated that they are only used in situations that could harm either the baby or the mother, and if you are uncomfotable with their medical opinion you can ask for a second opinion by another doctor in their practice. She also mentioned that you can ask your OB at your next appoitnment for their statistics as to how many c-sections that they perform in the office.  Every practice is different, so this is really dependent on who you have chosen as your OB, as opposed to the hospital as a whole.


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01-09-2013 at 8:45 AM
mhickey426
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carig63:

Ktrevey:
She was. She is a doula and has her own company.... Thats what confused me so much. 

She wants you to be scared of what she said so you hire her to argue with hospital staff. She's creating her own business. Shrewd, but not very nice. And for what it's worth, I loved every minute of my hospital birth!

She totally wants to help her own business.   If she scares you then you will hire her to come to your house or hospital or go to her birthing center if she has one.  There are people out there who are going to be like "omg she is so right, she was so honest, I have to go to her"


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01-09-2013 at 8:54 AM
jinnymb
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While I am very pro medfree birth, I think that she was out of line. you can be informative without using scare tatics. the hospital classes I took were very helpful and enjoyable. The nurse that taught it did not push interventions at all. enjoy your class and do your own research!!



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01-09-2013 at 8:56 AM
mgade001
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As an RN I will tell you that patients in the hospital do much better when they have an advocate. I agree with you and PP, sounds like she was looking for business. I think it actually shows her inexperience. I have known several doulas, and the ones that are the most knowledgable and experienced are those that are good at working with other members of the health care team.

Shame on BRU for hosting a class like that without a health care professional present. I'm sure your other class with give you some perspective. 

 


 
01-09-2013 at 8:58 AM
SmoothieQu...
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i'd be weary of any instructer that pushed one side of the spectrum harder than the other.  for something so personal to someone else (i.e. birth) really, she should have only been presenting the facts, and not her opinion on the matter.  by presenting just the statistics, facts, and figures, she then allows the individual to make their own decision on what's best for them.   

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01-09-2013 at 9:23 AM
MrsKeene12
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Watch the business of being born. She is right when informing you about high infant and mother death rates in the u.s. Other developed countries have much lower death rates. Hospitals want you in and out, this leads to unnecessary interventions and then a c-section. Ask what your hospitals epi and c-section rate is. Doctors and nurses will push meds on you, if you want a med free birth you do have to fight for it.
 
01-09-2013 at 10:18 AM
ggatlanta
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The fact that some of her information is true some of the time doesn't make her forceful tactics any less unpleasant.

This lady could make those who are on the fence about natural birth think of doulas as pushy snake-oil salesman, which is totally unfair to all the wonderful doulas out there. Maybe she believes her own hype, but she does her cause a disservice.


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01-09-2013 at 10:45 AM
mrsjessica...
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drpayne:
It probably wasn't the time or place for her to share her opinions but it sounds like she's pretty passionate about natural birth. It's extreme to talk about dying during birth.... But she actually makes some good points otherwise. Many hospitals are high intervention and you need to be well informed about your options.

Absolutely this! it does seem she was a bit extreme though...


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01-09-2013 at 11:06 AM
milkergirl...
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I have a friend from high school that became a doula.  She is also very pushy about home births, natural births, or going to a birth center instead of a hospital.  But if hospitals were so bad, then why do millions of women give birth there every year? 

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01-09-2013 at 11:51 AM
drpayne
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milkergirl1:
I have a friend from high school that became a doula.  She is also very pushy about home births, natural births, or going to a birth center instead of a hospital.  But if hospitals were so bad, then why do millions of women give birth there every year? 

Well if that's all of the thought someone wants to put into it, that's fine... but it can also be part of the problem.  Do things usually turn out ok?  Probably.  That doesn't mean that a lot of the stuff they do isn't completely unnecessary.  Talk to any woman who ended up with an unnecessary c-section after a bunch of interventions when her body just wasn't ready and she'll likely tell you she'd have done it differently had she known better.  I think it's a little blind to assume all doctors and hospitals care only about patient well-being.  Not saying all docs have a hidden agenda but birth is a business.  It's about numbers and getting people in/out quickly.  C-sections make them a lot more money.  That's not always their sole motivation... but it's something you need to know.


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01-09-2013 at 11:56 AM
mabenner1
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milkergirl1:
I have a friend from high school that became a doula.  She is also very pushy about home births, natural births, or going to a birth center instead of a hospital.  But if hospitals were so bad, then why do millions of women give birth there every year? 

Because health insurance companies cover OB/GYNs (surgeons), not midwives typically. Women delivered babies at home for thousands of years before hospitals were built. Just because something is the "usual" way doesn't mean it is best or right.


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01-09-2013 at 12:41 PM
genepoolpe...
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I'm sorry you had a bad experience. Your speaker did sound quite pushy, but I hope it doesn't turn you (or others) off birthing classes. Our birthing classes were also quite skewed towards natural birth, but in the end it's all about doing your homework. If something they say is terribly shocking or rubs you the wrong way, ask where they got that information. If they're any good at their job they'll provide you with a website or a network of education. Then it's up to you to cross reference their information, perhaps their information is outdated. Also take into consideration where that information is from.

Bottom line: Accept the responsibility that you (not specifically OP but everyone) need to be an educated consumer. Don't just accept anything people say as fact.


                
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01-09-2013 at 1:00 PM
CocoR04
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MrsKeene12:
Watch the business of being born. She is right when informing you about high infant and mother death rates in the u.s. Other developed countries have much lower death rates. Hospitals want you in and out, this leads to unnecessary interventions and then a c-section. Ask what your hospitals epi and c-section rate is. Doctors and nurses will push meds on you, if you want a med free birth you do have to fight for it.

I don't know what hospital you've dealt with, but I have a lot of friends who had smooth med-free births at hospitals without any judgement or hassle.  I work at the hospital where I'm delivering and the L&D team is extremely respectful of the mother's wishes... they don't "push meds on you" as you stated.  I wouldn't lump all hospitals into your stereotype.


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01-09-2013 at 1:07 PM
drpayne
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CocoR04:

MrsKeene12:
Watch the business of being born. She is right when informing you about high infant and mother death rates in the u.s. Other developed countries have much lower death rates. Hospitals want you in and out, this leads to unnecessary interventions and then a c-section. Ask what your hospitals epi and c-section rate is. Doctors and nurses will push meds on you, if you want a med free birth you do have to fight for it.

I don't know what hospital you've dealt with, but I have a lot of friends who had smooth med-free births at hospitals without any judgement or hassle.&nbsp; I work at the hospital where I'm delivering and the L&amp;D team is extremely respectful of the mother's wishes... they don't "push meds on you" as you stated.&nbsp; I wouldn't lump all hospitals into your stereotype.



That's great and you're lucky. However, I think stats speak for themselves. Many hospitals and providers are not that way, unfortunately. It's still best to be informed.

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01-09-2013 at 2:14 PM
82Sonia
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Our teacher was also a doula and spent a good portion of the time making us do ridiculous relaxation exercises and then acting out labor pains that looked more like orgasms.  It was really odd.

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01-09-2013 at 3:11 PM
danuli8
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Ktrevey:
So I went to my first birthing class. It was a free seminar at BRU. ( I am going to real classes starting this week, just figured I would do this one too). Well, over all it was good.. HOWEVER, the lady was very anti-hositpal and telling us that half of us in the room would get c-sections and that there is a huge increase of women that die during child birth. She was telling us that medically she cannot tell us to ignore our doctors warnings, but that we probably can and that try to stay at home as long as possible so you only have to be in the hospital about an hour. Then she went on to say that we need to argue with the people at the hospital to get what we want, make sure to put up a good fight! It was the scariest thing I have ever been to....Is this typical of a birthing class?? Should I expect this for the real one I am signed up for?

Some of her info is kinda sorta correct-ish, but clearly she did a horrible job presenting it. I would say it is true that you shouldn't go to the hospital too early. (An hour before birth is cutting it a little close, IMO.) And a 50% c-section rate is exaggerated unless you have some real whopper hospitals in your area. My local hospitals average 30-40%, which I think is pretty bad, but there are worse places. If you have picked a hospital already, look up its statistics (I live in Ohio and those statistics are actually collected by the state health department). But as PP have said, your choice of provider is probably even more important than your choice of hospital. I switched from an OB to a CNM because my OB and I had important philosophical differences about how my birth should go. If you haven't already, ask your doctor/midwife what his/her personal C-section rate and the conditions under which he/she would recommend a section. The most important thing is that you and your provider are on the same page about how (roughly) you expect the birth to go. And you absolutely do NOT need to argue with hospital staff. (Bad idea!!) You do, however, need to know what you want and don't want, maybe even give the nurses a written birth plan, and be ready to say things like, "Thanks for your concern about my pain, but I'd like to go med-free. If I change my mind about pain medication, I'll let you know." You can state your wishes in a kind way.

That doula had a terrible attitude. She won't remain in business for long with that kind of shrill, antagonistic approach to things. I'm sure your "real" class will be better. (FWIW, I hired a doula and she is the complete opposite of this!!)


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01-09-2013 at 5:27 PM
shandorfml...
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yikes. No, I'd hope you would not get that from a professional. Hopefully the real class is much better!

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01-09-2013 at 5:43 PM
KBeaut
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I'm delivering at a hospital, and I've had exactly the opposite experience with the midwife team so far.  I'm sure there are some hospitals that aren't so great, just like I'm sure there are some midwives that aren't so great... I'm sure the birth class your hospital is offering will give you a much clearer picture of how it's going to go for *you*, which is all that matters.  I wouldn't worry unless you hated that class, too :).

Also, keep in mind that some hospitals have high c-section rates because they take all the high risk cases in the area.  Where I live, we only have one hospital with a NICU in a rather large radius, and everyone who is high risk or has serious complications is sent there.  Their c-section rate is very high.  However, I know people who have had lovely un-medicated births there as well - they just had to be clear about their intentions, since it wasn't something the hospital did a lot of.  (note: i'm not delivering there unless I have to, it's still a 40 minute drive for me, so this isn't from personal experience). 

 
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